tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post1432161559990821042..comments2023-06-01T21:15:57.354-11:00Comments on The H Does NOT Stand For Habs: Aftermath: Reality BitesJ.T.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00012075493503316318noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-84661781823161976852010-05-24T15:13:29.401-11:002010-05-24T15:13:29.401-11:00JT,
I give the Flyers credit for drafting well, b...JT,<br /><br />I give the Flyers credit for drafting well, but even one bottom dweller finish helps. They get Van Rymsdck (sp) gift wrapped. Also, since they knew they were out of it, they became sellers and fleeced Atlanta out of the 8th overall pick (Coburn) in his draft. When you are on the playoff bubble as most teams seem to be, there are very few sellars.<br /><br />Another thing they have is imagination. They make the trade to get the rights to Hartnell (1st rounder) and Timonen before anyone else did that. They also find Tampa being on the cheap, tired of constantly drafting high picks, so they trade Fedetenko for the 4th pick overall (Pitkanen). Tampa did well with Fedetenko short term, but the 4th pick overall?<br /><br />Remember when Andre Savard ran up to the draft table to trade up one pick with Edmonton to get Higgins and then Edmonton drafts somebody from Mars? Wow,we went from 15th to 14th - phew! Philly likes to make some noise at draft time - that goes back to Lindros (call that one in the air). We were players for Sundin once, a buzz that fizzled out quickly.<br /><br />I do like your point that the Habs can afford to scour the ends of the earth for talent. No longer can we point out to the ownership issues that occured in the Houle era.DKerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02445386772250841397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-57853458619552479102010-05-24T09:36:37.456-11:002010-05-24T09:36:37.456-11:00I'm going to post a WIN for the HABS too!!! YE...I'm going to post a WIN for the HABS too!!! YES SIR!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-34897998338077579572010-05-24T04:09:22.806-11:002010-05-24T04:09:22.806-11:00WE WILL WIN TONIGHT!!!!!!
(last time I wrote that ...WE WILL WIN TONIGHT!!!!!!<br />(last time I wrote that it worked)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-80429186925156255732010-05-24T04:08:12.479-11:002010-05-24T04:08:12.479-11:00JT:
-very intelligent article and some of the pos...JT:<br /><br />-very intelligent article and some of the posts show excellent insight into the future. I'll just add a few items for consideration<br /><br />1. as it stand the CH have committed $45 million of cap to 14 players for next year. that leaves only about $12 million for 9 players and doesn't include increase to Plekanec (if they keep him)increases to Moore, Price, Halak, Pouliot, Pyatt, Lapierre and who knows whom they keep from that list<br /><br />2. depending on bonuses to be paid (potentially $1.9 million) they are currently over the cap by $1.2 million which will be charged to next year if not mitigated by bonuses paid and if they use the bonuses that are paid, assuming all earned they could be about $700K under the cap<br /><br />3. Gomez scored 59 points as a supposed 'top 5 skater in the NHL' and cost $7.37 on the cap. Saku Koivu was not retained and scored 52 points and cost the Ducks $3.2 million on the cap<br /><br />-it may be over tonight or it may be extended. no one really knows but what is certain is the concern your post outlines for the future is well founded<br /><br />-the job in front of PG is in fact more difficult this summer than it was for BG last summer and the cap position is the reason why. possible solutions abound but will he find any dance partners at the draft or on July 1st and how creative can he be without losing young prospects as sweetners to get rid of bad contracts. interesting times to come soonpfhabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05116906615296671918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-90105831884167070912010-05-24T03:52:49.231-11:002010-05-24T03:52:49.231-11:00Great read. Go Habs! Pants!Great read. Go Habs! Pants!moemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07714585748102791365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-44910071430421933272010-05-24T00:29:54.721-11:002010-05-24T00:29:54.721-11:00Good article JT. Overall, our first rounders have ...Good article JT. Overall, our first rounders have not been stellar.<br /><br />I think the Flyers are better than their regular season record and have drafted a very solid core of players. This could be a solid team for a number of years. For the purposes of your article they are a good model.<br /><br />And agree the loss of Markov in this series makes comparisons between us and them difficult. I doubt we are down 3-1 with Markov in the lineup. While our first rounders have not panned out as well as we would hope, we have done a good job of building a strong core ourselves through free agency and trades. We should have a solid team for a few years as well.Vnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-73354030910958155432010-05-23T18:14:05.111-11:002010-05-23T18:14:05.111-11:00We're not dead yet.We're not dead yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-59856419131394358742010-05-23T17:32:50.566-11:002010-05-23T17:32:50.566-11:00Side note: Habs this season and post-season have b...Side note: Habs this season and post-season have been as bipolar and confusingly hot and cold as Lost's finale tonight...if that makes senseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-9811816789083835382010-05-23T16:22:01.663-11:002010-05-23T16:22:01.663-11:00@jt
I guess I'm not so sure, I agree with you...@jt<br /><br />I guess I'm not so sure, I agree with your analysis (good example of late drafting). <br /><br />If they were a dominant team rather than a playoff bubble team, then I would agree.<br /><br />Yes they have some talented players, but those players did not give them a substantially better record than Montreal's. <br /><br />And I'm also not convinced Montreal's drafting has been that horrible.<br /><br />What has been horrible is the player development.kostadis roussoshttp://eastwest.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-23351700235267776082010-05-23T16:17:44.831-11:002010-05-23T16:17:44.831-11:00@kostadis: Not saying the Flyers are a model franc...@kostadis: Not saying the Flyers are a model franchise...the Briere contract and failure to address the long-term goalie issue are problems for sure. What I AM saying is they're a very good example of the benefits of smart, late-round drafting. That's something the Habs need to do much, much better. That's it.J.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00012075493503316318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-31427315048137217672010-05-23T16:04:30.141-11:002010-05-23T16:04:30.141-11:00@jt
Are we really using the Flyers as a poster c...@jt <br /><br />Are we really using the Flyers as a poster child for how to build a champion? For crying out loud, they barely made it into the playoffs. Yes they beat New Jersey, but New Jersey has been losing to everyone in the first round. <br /><br />They only beat the Bruins because the Bruins top scorer got injured, and because the Bruins have a history of choking. <br /><br />And yes their crushing of the Habs is epic, but it has little to do with the comparative team structure. It has more to do with the fact that the Habs are running on fumes.<br /><br />The Habs broke. It sounds almost comic, but athletes break. They run out of gas. And when that happens they are picked apart by another team. <br /><br />Why did the Habs beat the Pens? Because the Pens broke. Gonchar broke. Seriously, do you really believe there is another explanation for why Moen beat Gonchar to the outside? <br /><br />There is a reason no team has won the cup after winning back-to-back 7 game series. It's too tiring, emotionally and physically. I'm not a player and I am tired of the playoffs. <br /><br />They are exhausted. And whereas the Flyers are getting reinforcements in the form of Carter and Laperrie, we still don't have Markov. For crying out loud, we're relying on PK Subban to play big minutes for us! <br /><br />I don't see the Flyers as a better way to build teams. <br /><br />I don't see the Flyers as a model franchise.<br /><br />I see them as the team that benefited from Montreal's heroics. And for all of their destruction of Montreal all that will happen is that they will get swept in four by Chicago. <br /><br />There are many lessons to be learned, but not from the Flyers.kostadis roussoshttp://eastwest.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-2705286109159099592010-05-23T15:08:43.277-11:002010-05-23T15:08:43.277-11:00@MC: The thing is, Philly only finished in the lot...@MC: The thing is, Philly only finished in the lottery once...the year they picked van Riemsdyk second overall. Most of their other picks have been in the twenties. That's just good scouting and strong drafting. Since the Habs won't be allowed to follow the tank route, for reasons of pride and economics, they must make the best out of the choices they have. That's the difference between them and the Flyers.<br /><br />I agree player development is just as important as good drafting, and these are both areas that can be improved by making sure the scouting and coaching teams are the best possible. Those areas don't count against the cap and get better with investment. The Habs should have the biggest, best scouting team out there. They can afford it. They've made a good start on the development side with Boucher and his team in Hamilton. Now it's just a matter of whether they can hold onto him.J.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00012075493503316318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-57478475285191940012010-05-23T15:00:46.866-11:002010-05-23T15:00:46.866-11:00@JT: I admit that I would be in the "even th...@JT: I admit that I would be in the "even the most optimistic of us" category ;-). There is no denying the success of Philly's management of draft picks as you have described, even if they had to tank for a few seasons. Its a shame the cap system will force them to dismantle the team in a few years, like the Blackhawks next year. <br /><br />Let's hope the Habs continue to develop guys like Pyatt and Subban, letting them develop properly before throwing them to the lions in the Bell Centre.MCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-43966698843656634092010-05-23T13:45:09.759-11:002010-05-23T13:45:09.759-11:00@MC: With respect, I think it's a stretch to s...@MC: With respect, I think it's a stretch to say the Habs are a winning team...yet. I give the Flyers credit for their drafting because I think it's the right way to build a consistent, long-term winner. Of course, I can't prove that until we see what happens with the Canadiens in the next three or four years. But even the most optimistic of us have to admit that the Habs are where they are because of a great deal of self-sacrifice by the defencemen and some otherworldly play by Halak. I think that kind of style, played by this kind of team, won't stand up over the long haul. The Flyers solid young talented core has a better chance for that. Again, though, time will tell.<br /><br />I agree with you on Markov, though. I think at the very least the Habs aren't looking at three shutouts in four games if he's in the lineup. Oh well. Luck plays as big a part as anything in the playoffs, and the Habs really haven't had much of the good variety. They've been hurt all playoffs and every team they've played has been better off in the health department.J.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00012075493503316318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-23781037423336511982010-05-23T13:31:04.670-11:002010-05-23T13:31:04.670-11:00I agree with the sentiment that drafting is extrem...I agree with the sentiment that drafting is extremely important to success in the cap era. But I disagree it is the difference in this series. Both of these teams have been constructed in different ways and have made to the conference final ahead of 26 other teams. The Habs are 3 wins from a berth in the final. The Habs have built a winning team, what more do we want from management?<br /><br />The difference in this series is Markov is out and Pronger is in. If the situation was reversed and Markov was playing at the top of his game and Pronger was out, the series would be different. Not many teams can win it all when their best defenceman is lost.<br /><br />Even without Markov the Habs are very close. Game 2 and 4 could have gone either way if Montreal gets the first goal. What if Plekanc's shot between Leighton's legs finds the back of the net? Or Gorges' skate guard stays on? With teams so even, the difference is often random events and luck. To blame the outcome of this series on Habs management or to give credit to Flyers management is a stretch. The goalie situation in Philly has been a joke for years. They were lucky to find Leighton on the trash heap before Christmas, and even luckier that he has been playing well as a career 2.94 GAA and .902 save percentage goalie.MCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-84238429776170792112010-05-23T12:30:34.467-11:002010-05-23T12:30:34.467-11:00@NorCalVol: Very true, which is why I think John ...@NorCalVol: Very true, which is why I think John Tortorella's to blame for this. However, even though those guys didn't have a great regular season we can't deny that they've drafted a hell of a lot of good players in the first round. It's not genius. It's good drafting. Just imagine if the Canadiens had drafted even one true top centre in the first round in the last ten years? There's a very good chance they wouldn't have made the Gomez trade, and instead would have extra millions to afford better quality support players. I can't stand the Flyers either, but they DO draft well.J.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00012075493503316318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-27570575153931284522010-05-23T12:17:01.695-11:002010-05-23T12:17:01.695-11:00With regard to the Flyers and all of the supposed ...With regard to the Flyers and all of the supposed genius of their organization - we wouldn't be having this conversation if the Flyers had lost the shootout on the last day of the season.NorCalVolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16889295930438998477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-83251643688351960262010-05-23T11:36:42.456-11:002010-05-23T11:36:42.456-11:00Right now, reality biting wise, Pleks and Gomez ha...Right now, reality biting wise, Pleks and Gomez have 5 goals between them in 36 games between them and each over 20 minutes a game. So for 40 minutes a game, 18 games, you get five goals. It is no wonder Philly is so afraid. <br /><br />Over a season like this Pleks would have 18 goals and Gomez maybe 5. Gomez has over 40 shots, and one goal. The third and fourth line centers have seven goals. Two more that the 1 and 2 centers. They play less than half the minutes.<br /><br />I think the Montreal Canadiens need a big center and a couple of wingers, or they need a couple of big centers. The idea is for the other team to try and shut you down not for your team to hope your third or fourth line guys get lucky while playing 1/6th of the game. <br /><br />Now you see where Sydney Crosby was coming from? The Habs can't win like this. They can act as spoilers, but they can't win.<br /><br />PS: I hope I get a chance to eat my words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-53987322925984862532010-05-23T11:29:44.932-11:002010-05-23T11:29:44.932-11:00Excellent post concerning drafting players. Philad...Excellent post concerning drafting players. Philadelphia has a team philosophy and draft players accordingly, whereas the Habs choose to take the best player available (as they see it) at the time. Clearly this doesn't work. I hope the Habs can win this series and play the Hawks but the Flyers are clearly better and will make for a more exciting cup final.<br /><br />The regular season Habs needed 3 new forwards for the top two lines. AK46, Pouliot and Plekanec don't fit the bill. Pleks is a solid third line center and if he wants top line money the Habs must let him go for the good of the team going forward. As far as the other two go, try and trade them for whatever, they must go as well. The playoff Habs have been magnificent and as a fan I am grateful for all the fun watching them dump the Craps and Crybaby's team but in reality they are a bubble team and may not even make the playoffs next year if significant changes aren't made. I would like the Habs to dump some salary and trade any or all of AK46, Hammer, Spacek and Gill and take a shot at Marleau. He was by far the best Shark and after the sweep may want out of San Jose.<br /><br />I know it may be impossible to trade any of the guys I'd like to see go but I can dream and sometimes dreams do come true. In any case I'm optimistic the Habs will win Monday and give the fans one more thrill at the Bell Centre.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-41249191328172964932010-05-23T11:14:52.270-11:002010-05-23T11:14:52.270-11:00You're right. A first or second round choice i...You're right. A first or second round choice is very valuable to the future of a team. Trading one away is for immediate and usually short term benefit. Tanguay was not a benefit. Moore is good to have, but is signed until Monday (maybe later:) then could be signed by anybody.<br /><br />Without knowing who makes decisions, or seeing the scouts choices in Montreal, it is pretty easy to blame Timmins and staff. Committees for instance minimize blame but often preclude success. The only ones who know how the scouts are doing are those who also give away the picks. Must be a great job. You're wrong and you're an idiot. You're right but the GM picks a kid from his hometown instead, and you're an idiot. You're right and the GM picks your choice, you're usually fired because the team was in last place and had the first pick. Probably tell a scout by the rattle of the tums bottle he carries.<br /><br />Sam Pollock used the shotgun approach. He would have traded Theodore at the height of his popularity for picks, simply because he knew the business and wouldn't listen to 21000 fans who knew better. Todays teams are all about sales, so the pressure on a GM not to trade surprisingly popular players for a possibly assured future is manifested by the simple phrase "You're gone, and this guy who will do what we say is in."<br /><br />Most teams have one or two rising stars they picked in the first round over the last few years. Montreal does not, although Price has potential. But Price was 5th, that was a lottery pick, and Pouliot was 4th. Go figure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-71655701235472007222010-05-23T11:07:01.085-11:002010-05-23T11:07:01.085-11:00I sincerely would like to believe that a change in...I sincerely would like to believe that a change in the "old boys club" that has taken root in Montreal these many years has ended. But the coronation of PG without doing a proper search of available talent makes me doubtful. Geoff Molson must be over the moon with the unexpected revenue from all these home playoff games. Call my cynical, but I foresee no changes in fact I see a cementing of the current management for years to come. That prospect saddens me to no end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3435571560723564995.post-45355487467211627912010-05-23T10:23:11.817-11:002010-05-23T10:23:11.817-11:00You know, the problem with the habs is that they w...You know, the problem with the habs is that they were missing talent between 27-32. The key ages for talent. He had to buy that talent, because of problems he inherited, and because he never quite let the habs acquire a top 1 or 3 pick.<br /><br />I'm not sure it is his fault. Here's what I wrote about at the beginning of the year.<br /><br />http://eastmeetswest.krung.net/east_meets_west/2009/07/gainey-found-his-missing-generation-i-was-right-.htmlkostadis roussoshttp://eastwest.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.com